Anyone here a Conrad Johnson fan?

[nickrobotron]

Hey everyone, looking for a little discussion on Conrad Johnson.

My situation: I have been exploring their preamplifiers lately, hunting for a little bit of that midrange bloom for my basement system. Currently running a streaming rig direct to the amp. It's crazy good with dynamics and staging. It's quite hard to beat going direct but I think it could use a little bit more body or warmth in the tone of the mids without losing the good stuff.
I tried to use my Naim Supernait 2 as a pre, but it really clogged things up with bloated bass and soundstage got tiny. I tried a Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 and it was also very warm, but maybe even less air and detail. I tried a Rogue RP-1 and RH-5 and both were almost invisible, particularly the RH-5, which I guess someone might want if they had multiple sources and needed a good volume control. I do think the RP-1 could be magical with the right stereo.
Been thinking of trying some of the classic stuff that all the guys rave about. Mainly looking at Audio Research, Cary, and Conrad. I just ordered an old PV-14L on Audiogon. I'll be giving that a go next week and I'll report back. I mainly bought this model because condition was great, tubes were great and it was just ready to plug and play. I'm very impatient. I've read so many positive things about the Premier models. I'm trying to find a Premier 10, 14, 16LS(S2) or 17LS(S2).
Some say they've gotten away from their "musicality" in favor of articulate detail at some point in their lineage. That's an interesting take for me, because you hear the same about ARC. With all the advancements over time, I'm not surprised clarity and detail is improving. Almost sounds like progress to me. At the end of the day it's about enjoying your stereo, so to each their own! I guess I'm also looking for a little bit of flavor too. Not coffee and not filtered water, but maybe an oolong tea? With lemon?

My question: Have you used or are you still using Conrad Johnson gear? I'd love to hear about your impressions of the brand and the products that you liked or didn't like.

 

[S0und Dragon]

One of the few brands that I have never actually owned. I am curious about the brand as I have always heard it said that it is a warm house sound.

 

[Tom Brennan]

One of the better systems I heard used CJ tube components and Altec Valencias. That's all I know about CJ.

 

[fiddlefye]

I have a couple of CJ pieces I've had for many years. I have a PV12 pre which is currently "resting" while I use a TVC in the system and an early vintage MV45 power amp. The MV 45 has been with me 35 or more years now. I've had countless amps (both SS and tube) come through and all have left, the MV45 remaining. A number of years ago it had a minor rebuild (mostly recapping) and a couple of years ago it got the full treatment. My tech now adores it (he picked up a "beater" to rebuild for himself) and I honestly can't imagine replacing it with anything I'd like better. Definitely NOT in the overly "warm" category and the PV12 is not, either. Both are quite responsive to tube rolling in my experience.

 

[pdreher]

My experience is limited to a PV12 preamp that sounded very veiled, so it was gone fairly quickly. I also tried a Premier 140 tube amp, which was very strident and fatiguing... so it was sold after tube rolling failed to take the edge off. YMMV.

 

[Rudy]

Definitely NOT in the overly "warm" category and the PV12 is not, either. Both are quite responsive to tube rolling in my experience.

Really old C-J can supposedly sound on the warm side (like some of their earliest components) but anything like what @fiddlefye has, the later Premier line, etc., and especially their more recent ART series are anything but warm. Some feel the Premier 8/11/12 amp series (same circuitry, different output) were the last of the "old school" C-J sound but even there, they are liquid and musical, not warm and murky. The Premier 11 and 12 both had great reviews when they arrived all those years ago.

I just ordered an old PV-14L on Audiogon.

Their preamps usually have very simple circuitry and only minimal gain stages, and the PV-14L uses nothing but a pair of Mullard M8080/CV4058 tubes (which I believe were rugged military tubes). It's electrically equivalent to a 6C4 but they get microphonic as heck (even at an average volume), as witnessed by the Tung-Sol and Philips-ECG 6C4s I tried. Stick to the M8080s--this is one preamp that does not do well with tube rolling, only because there are so few options. If you keep it, import some M8080s from the UK--there are a few good eBay sellers who can provide matched pairs of new old stock. Keep in mind the single gain stage in the PV-14L will invert the phase at the output. Not a big deal, but something to be aware of.

One or two other C-J preamps used the M8080s as well, right around the same era. (Without looking, the Premier 14 may also use M8080s.) Their preamps won't add much to the sonic character of what is put into them so, if looking to "tube up" the sound, it's going to leave a very minimal footprint at best (and not in a bad way). A couple other preamps of similar vintage in their line use more common tubes, while a more recent design was using a Russian tube that wasn't very common.

If you need tube information and owners manuals, the C-J site has many of their vintage series available online for viewing. If you need a schematic, the Conrad Johnson Owners forum is your next stop.

 

[fiddlefye]

My experience is limited to a PV12 preamp that sounded very veiled, so it was gone fairly quickly. I also tried a Premier 140 tube amp, which was very strident and fatiguing... so it was sold after tube rolling failed to take the edge off. YMMV.

My PV12 is very much the opposite of "veiled" so either there was something wrong with it or it was a really bad match for whatever it was paired with. I've found it to be very dependent on tube choice, though.

 

[adaug]

used to have the MV45 and one of the PV10s. very natural and enjoyable. perhaps less "audiophile" and more "musical."

reason i sold them was because tube rolling involved taking off the covers (instead of having the tubes exposed). stupid, perhaps?

 

[JohnVF]

My PV12 is very much the opposite of "veiled" so either there was something wrong with it or it was a really bad match for whatever it was paired with. I've found it to be very dependent on tube choice, though.

I remember really liking your PV12 but hasn't it been through quite an upgrade through your (great) tech? I'm still wanting a Heybrook amp to send through him, if he's still doing such things.

 

[fiddlefye]

I remember really liking your PV12 but hasn't it been through quite an upgrade through your (great) tech? I'm still wanting a Heybrook amp to send through him, if he's still doing such things.

Dennis is still hard at work and always up for the more interesting projects. He's getting pretty weary of having home theatre receivers come through the door and turns down a lot of those. The PV-12 had some minor upgrades, but it was the MV45 that really has had the treatment. It is quite a bit better yet than when you heard it...

 

[nickrobotron]

All great info, guys. Thanks for all the responses.
I’d love the contact to a tech. I’ve purchased some more vintage Conrad stuff that, if I dig its stock sound, I’d like to invest in.

 

[Rudy]

As far as techs go, I've heard that Bill Thalmann has retired. He was formerly C-J's Technical Director and knows these amps inside and out, and afterward ran Music Technology (a vintage audio repair shop) up until August of 2023. I'm glad he worked on my amp. He had a long backlog at the time but took care of my concerns perfectly. (I think one minor part in the biasing circuit had failed.)

I can't even think of where I'd send anything now. C-J will do repairs but they always push their Teflon capacitor upgrade, which costs more than the amp is worth (and I wouldn't hear a difference anyway)...or I've heard they are a very expensive option for repairs otherwise. (And some of these changes happened after Bill Conrad and Lew Johnson sold the company to their longtime GM, Jeff Fischel.)

I don't know if Bill Thalmann ever did circuit modifications, though. But if anyone could think of improvements, he would have been the one to know where they could be made. Aside from that, he always took my questions by email, and it was a good experience having used his company.

My only non-stock modification was to have Bill add an IEC socket to the amp, as my original cord had frayed, and I had unused power cords here already. (I included a good Furutech IEC socket.) I also had him "upgrade" the amp to its "A" version (which is simply a capacitor across each bias LED to reduce faint background noise), per C-J schematics. I did change to different output tubes, but I will only discuss that via PM due to being trolled here in the past.

---

Music Technology's site said the facility was closed permanently due to health reasons, with a link to donate to the Michael J. Fox Foundation. So I would guess that Bill is battling Parkinson's. 🙁

 

[pdreher]

My PV12 is very much the opposite of "veiled" so either there was something wrong with it or it was a really bad match for whatever it was paired with. I've found it to be very dependent on tube choice, though.

That could easily be the case, as I was expecting good things. I was still a novice audiophile at the time, so I didn't think to question the lack of performance.

 

[Shakeydeal]

I auditioned a PV11 around 1996. I really liked it but the dealer wouldn’t budge an iota on the price, so I returned it. Since then I have owned a Premiere 140, an LP66, and a Premiere 17LS. All were good to varying degrees. But the modern CJ sound doesn’t have the bloom of the older stuff. So stay with the vintage CJ gear if you want tube bloom and don’t care about resolution and transparency.

 

[Rudy]

Of all the audio shows I've been to, modern tube components don't do it for me, especially when the price tag gets into the five figures. Problem is, there are now some excellent solid state amps out there (Pass Labs, Constellation, the two I can think of off the top of my head at the moment) which are just as musical these days. Why bother with the expense of tubes if these brands are delivering their own versions of that same musical sound?

C-J has evolved over time, so it's not like there's a cutoff from their really old components (which could indeed become a little too "tubey") to the modern day. I get plenty of resolution from the components I have and they are a couple of decades old.