MM cartridges with higher output

MrEd

MrEd

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In a conversation with a friend about phono cartridge likes and dislikes. It appears we both have the opinion that MM cartridges with higher output seem more lively or dynamic.
An example from my experience is the AT VM95 I have @ 4mv vs the Tomar Diabolic @ 8mv.
The AT does all things it should but seems to fit the descriptor often used as being too polite.
The Tomar has balls
So... anyone have any input and what other cartridges have higher than 5mv output.
I'll tag @JohnVF here... I know you have a cartridge fetish... 😊
 
This guy (M55E) is definitely what I'd call lively with a stated 6.2mV. I believe mine has the OEM N55E stylus. I like it but, it can get fatiguing with some LPs which are also more lively in the upper frequencies.
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MrEd said:
In a conversation with a friend about phono cartridge likes and dislikes. It appears we both have the opinion that MM cartridges with higher output seem more lively or dynamic.
An example from my experience is the AT VM95 I have @ 4mv vs the Tomar Diabolic @ 8mv.
The AT does all things it should but seems to fit the descriptor often used as being too polite.
The Tomar has balls
So... anyone have any input and what other cartridges have higher than 5mv output.
I'll tag @JohnVF here... I know you have a cartridge fetish... 😊
Click to expand...
I've noticed that, but more in relation to certain phono stages and working with what output on them is best for my line stage (and not others). My Lehmann Decade has a 10db switch that will boost output between MM and MC (and also for very low MC) and if there's a particular cart that needs some oomph, that usually takes care of it...so its seemingly also related to the input demands of the line-stage preamp in question. This was particularly noticeable when using the auto former passive line stage. The last two carts I've listened to at length, the Stanton Hz8s and Empire EDR.9 are 4.0 and 4.5mv respectively and it seems a good match for my Primare. I'd have to look up what some of my other carts out figures are...to be honest I've only really paid much attention on LOMCs as some of them are -very- low.
 
I put my Tonar back on today to get a back to back with the AT.
It definitely got some something the AT does not, maybe making the midrange more pronounced, but horns and drums just leap out at you. 🙂
 
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MrEd said:
This an example of info I am seeking.
Some of the Shure have higher output.
Click to expand...
Have an Empire 108 it’s a good early stereo cartridge, 8 mv output

Also have a Shure M44E that’s a good rock&roll cartridge, 9.5 mv output

Believe those might be 2 of the highest in my collection….

Andy
 
This Acutex 420 I’m running has a 3.5mv output and it’s right up there with the most dynamic carts I’ve owned. I really think the question is in how the gain staging works with your phono stage. You overdrive the phono stage and you’re going to get a lot of irritating surface noise from those peaks overloading the stage. It’s one reason a lot of more expensive stages sound more averse to surface noise. They have more headroom- but a cart with double the average Mm output can cancel that out.
 
adnick said:
Have an Empire 108 it’s a good early stereo cartridge, 8 mv output

Also have a Shure M44E that’s a good rock&roll cartridge, 9.5 mv output

Believe those might be 2 of the highest in my collection….

Andy
Click to expand...
Any comments on there sound characteristics?
 
The M44 has a bold presentation, find it a great classic rock, Blues, and some Jazz cartridge, but probably not Classical or soft Jazz….at least that’s my take.

The 108 can probably be used across the musical spectrum, it’s fairly dependent on the tonearm used; wouldn’t rank it as high as the Shure MD3 but it’s a nice all around cartridge…

Andy
 
This is where so much of it being personal comes in. I can't think of a cartridge that I liked less than the Shure M3D. I don't mean that to take away from anybody who does like it, but I often find myself wondering what exactly it is I'm trying to weigh in on, when the target is so far from what I, myself, am personally after, whatever pushes my own buttons. That's the beauty of analog...you can push it in whatever direction that suits your taste.

I have an M3D and M7D, with the lighter tracking of the styluses (N21?) that originally was made for the M7 but fits my bakelite M3D.

The output of the M3D is 5mv, but the frequency response dips to where its not putting out much of anything at 15khz.
 
Always dislike comparing carts, it’s so easy to be misconstrued, and it’s difficult to really evaluate a cartridge unless it’s done with comparison to other cartridges on the same system. (a fair comparison might require changing tonearms and loading)

The love or hate of the MD3 reminds me of the Denon DL103, however there’s really no comparison when one considers the number of people who praise the 103 vs the MD3; obviously the MD3 following is minuscule in comparison.

Another thought I’ve pondered about the MD3 is the very early or “ pre-production” models vs the actual mass production ones, is there a difference? (Other than the physical)

If there required to live with only one cartridge, any I listed would suffice, however my preference would lean more towards the Pickering V15, Grace F8 Custom or the Stanton, 681EEE or 881S…..

Realizing we have different systems, (preamps, tonearms, speakers) it’s difficult to say what works on “your system” vs “my system” and many times the differences are very slight, not “this cart blows away that cart” :talk:


The above isn’t directed at anyone in particular, just me thinking out loud, or off the cuff so to speak ;-)

Andy
 
There quite few MD3 lover on Lenco Heaven.
I have a Pickering V15 that I got nos a few years ago. It lives on Lucy's turntable in our living room system and sounds good.
I may try it on mine a see what impressions I get.
 
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