What a wonderful post. Thank you, and Merry Christmas.
My Meadowlark Journey...
- Thread starter AudioFanKJ
- Start date
As of this morning, the Nightingales & Pelican have just over 1,400 hours of play time on them, of which 214 hours have been at or very near max volume. I believe it is fair to state the surrounds on the Nightingales seem to be fully broken in. If anyone sees the Pelican in person and feels the "bicycle tire" surround of the woofer and the stiffness of it, they would question it without doubt.
Sonically, the finesse and delicacy have become much more normalized at "conversation" volume levels which is a good sign. I have been busy revamping the room details.
I have installed ATS Acoustic Panels. The drapes on the front wall behind the speakers has been removed. Two ATS Acoustic Baffles were installed this morning leaving only one Acoustic Panel left to install which will go on the back of the door to the room once it is replaced (on order).
Above is a picture with one of the ATS Acoustic Panels prior to being installed on the wall, the drapes on the front wall (behind the speaker on either side of the screen) and a Townshend Audio Seismic Podium set out for measurements...
Poor lighting in the above picture. Most of these will be poor as they are from a phone camera. However, the front drapes have been removed and ATS Acoustic Panels have been added on the front & side walls. To the left of the Pelican is a Solidsteel rack with Townshend Seismic Platforms on it assembled and ready to go. However, the fiber internet coming into the house will need to be interrupted when the gear is transferred onto the rack... this has been denied by the household a few times already as an hour or two without internet and TV would be a travesty...
Sonically, the finesse and delicacy have become much more normalized at "conversation" volume levels which is a good sign. I have been busy revamping the room details.
I have installed ATS Acoustic Panels. The drapes on the front wall behind the speakers has been removed. Two ATS Acoustic Baffles were installed this morning leaving only one Acoustic Panel left to install which will go on the back of the door to the room once it is replaced (on order).
Above is a picture with one of the ATS Acoustic Panels prior to being installed on the wall, the drapes on the front wall (behind the speaker on either side of the screen) and a Townshend Audio Seismic Podium set out for measurements...
Poor lighting in the above picture. Most of these will be poor as they are from a phone camera. However, the front drapes have been removed and ATS Acoustic Panels have been added on the front & side walls. To the left of the Pelican is a Solidsteel rack with Townshend Seismic Platforms on it assembled and ready to go. However, the fiber internet coming into the house will need to be interrupted when the gear is transferred onto the rack... this has been denied by the household a few times already as an hour or two without internet and TV would be a travesty...
ATS Acoustic Panels also added on the side walls as seen here:
Looking past the incredible mess of plastic wrapping, old surround speakers pulled off the walls in the rear, the plethora of tools, it is possible to see a few panels along the left side and one in the back right. Templates for hanging are on the back of the seating.
Template centered on the wall for the first of two panels to be installed behind the center rear row seats.
Panels installed above... off to next project dialing in the room...
Looking past the incredible mess of plastic wrapping, old surround speakers pulled off the walls in the rear, the plethora of tools, it is possible to see a few panels along the left side and one in the back right. Templates for hanging are on the back of the seating.
Template centered on the wall for the first of two panels to be installed behind the center rear row seats.
Panels installed above... off to next project dialing in the room...
Solidsteel rack installed for front end equipment with some help from Tom Clancy...
Above you will see the Solidsteel rack with Townshend Seismic Platforms on the shelves. On the bottom shelf is the Puritan PSM156 and the HDPlex 300W LPSU. On the top shelf is the miniDSP SHD Studio & the Sonictransporter i5 (from Small Green Computer) which serves as the Roon Core and music server.
Tom Clancy and Clive Cussler had to assist as I use the Sablon Audio ethernet cables to and from the router and front end equipment. They are very stiff, and only 1 meter length... the Orbi router required to be elevated a good six to eight inches to allow the cables to reach. Long term this will be resolved as an ethernet switch is on order (but delivery delayed 30 days)... so for now Clancy & Cussler are lending a hand.
The Puritan PSM156 was inserted into the system this past Monday evening, and has just over 100 hours of play time on it as of this morning. Industry consensus with this unit is two weeks of play time for full sonic achievement. Will try to post impressions and comments more often.
Above you will see the Solidsteel rack with Townshend Seismic Platforms on the shelves. On the bottom shelf is the Puritan PSM156 and the HDPlex 300W LPSU. On the top shelf is the miniDSP SHD Studio & the Sonictransporter i5 (from Small Green Computer) which serves as the Roon Core and music server.
Tom Clancy and Clive Cussler had to assist as I use the Sablon Audio ethernet cables to and from the router and front end equipment. They are very stiff, and only 1 meter length... the Orbi router required to be elevated a good six to eight inches to allow the cables to reach. Long term this will be resolved as an ethernet switch is on order (but delivery delayed 30 days)... so for now Clancy & Cussler are lending a hand.
The Puritan PSM156 was inserted into the system this past Monday evening, and has just over 100 hours of play time on it as of this morning. Industry consensus with this unit is two weeks of play time for full sonic achievement. Will try to post impressions and comments more often.
I’ve added quite a few acoustic panels in my two “listening rooms” in recent years. Started with a new pair of GIK Acoustics bass traps, I then found a second pair used for the second room, then a few very modest panels (more decorative, as the foam layer is quite thin), and built a few DIY panels. In the last year or so I found some older Michael Green RoomTunes panels, which contained very loose, low density foam. I squeezed in an additional layer of dense mineral wool. Then I picked up two pairs of GIK 242 panels. (A nice attribute of the RoomTunes and the older GIK panels is the more “open” nature of the frames.)
The end result? The rooms are “quieter”, with reductions in slap echo. But room resonances remain. ( Bedroom has a primary resonance around 40 Hz, which mostly manifests as a looseness around 80 and 120). And in-room frequency response readings even of my better speakers remain erratic. I don’t doubt the subtle improvements over time. But after all that effort, was hoping for better.
The end result? The rooms are “quieter”, with reductions in slap echo. But room resonances remain. ( Bedroom has a primary resonance around 40 Hz, which mostly manifests as a looseness around 80 and 120). And in-room frequency response readings even of my better speakers remain erratic. I don’t doubt the subtle improvements over time. But after all that effort, was hoping for better.
No admission fee necessary with scheduled appointment. 👍
Yes, depending on the size of the room, quite a bit of panels may be required. My listening room is roughly 16’ wide by 21’ long with 9’ ceilings. Coffered ceilings, and built in bookshelves for albums along the rear wall of the room. Frise carpet on the floor, and pretty much floor to ceiling drapes on one side wall covering a bank of three windows.
Installed 8 of 9 (one remaining to be installed on back of new solid core door to the room on order) which are 24” wide x 48” tall x 4” deep throughout the room. Two 36“ wide x 24” tall x 4” deep behind second row seating in between beguile in shelving. Two 48” wide x 12” tall x 2” deep hanging baffles (suspended from coffered ceiling beams) have done a pretty decent job thus far.
I am contemplating lining the rear wall of the built in album shelves with 2” thick roxul and covering with acoustic fabric. Here is a picture snapped after installing the suspended baffles and a very messy room… the built in album shelving can be seen behind the parted curtains:
For Kpatch and others whom have inquired a month or so ago about how it sounds…
Incredible. I appreciate the patience and understanding as my blurbs about sonic progression has somewhat taken a back seat to room treatments as the equipment continues to play and gain hours. This week will mark the recommended “two week” optimization on the Puritan PSM156 power purifier.
The Townshend Seismic Podiums will be installed underneath the Nightingales. It is likely next weekend I will play with speaker placement and toe in with the Townshend Podiums.
Then comes the Dirac room tuning. I am trying to do as much by ear and understand what each change introduces into the system prior to making another change or too many changes at once.
The finesse and organic capabilities have truly improved from what I read what I wrote back in this thread a month ago. Another week or two and I would love to have a couple local audiophiles come over for an audition.
As everyone is aware in this hobby, the entire system is only as good as the weakest link in the system. The streaming audio is entirely new to me, or at least the exclusivity of everything listened to is being streamed.
I do have an Ethernet filter on order that is to ship around the end of February, as well as a couple of Ethernet switches that will allow me to convert the incoming fiber optic from Ethernet to a switch from ethernet cable to optical Ethernet to a switch near the system and convert the optical Ethernet back to Ethernet at the front end. The goal behind both of these steps are to lower overall noise though the Ethernet transmission links.
After that, and the Dirac settings… I may be relegated to the less “conventional“ tweaks… like the “suede” texture wall paint sounding so much better than the flat or satin finish…. (no, that is not being serious... just checking if anyone reading is still awake.)
More to follow on the sonics in the upcoming weeks.
Incredible. I appreciate the patience and understanding as my blurbs about sonic progression has somewhat taken a back seat to room treatments as the equipment continues to play and gain hours. This week will mark the recommended “two week” optimization on the Puritan PSM156 power purifier.
The Townshend Seismic Podiums will be installed underneath the Nightingales. It is likely next weekend I will play with speaker placement and toe in with the Townshend Podiums.
Then comes the Dirac room tuning. I am trying to do as much by ear and understand what each change introduces into the system prior to making another change or too many changes at once.
The finesse and organic capabilities have truly improved from what I read what I wrote back in this thread a month ago. Another week or two and I would love to have a couple local audiophiles come over for an audition.
As everyone is aware in this hobby, the entire system is only as good as the weakest link in the system. The streaming audio is entirely new to me, or at least the exclusivity of everything listened to is being streamed.
I do have an Ethernet filter on order that is to ship around the end of February, as well as a couple of Ethernet switches that will allow me to convert the incoming fiber optic from Ethernet to a switch from ethernet cable to optical Ethernet to a switch near the system and convert the optical Ethernet back to Ethernet at the front end. The goal behind both of these steps are to lower overall noise though the Ethernet transmission links.
After that, and the Dirac settings… I may be relegated to the less “conventional“ tweaks… like the “suede” texture wall paint sounding so much better than the flat or satin finish…. (no, that is not being serious... just checking if anyone reading is still awake.)
More to follow on the sonics in the upcoming weeks.
It really is hard to express in words what Pat has achieved, isn’t it? Just this leap closer to the performance on whatever source you are listening to.
Congratulations on what I can only dream sounds like a sonic windfall of greatness.
I also have a active speaker system with the mini dsp studio and use a dedicated laptop for my source and to run the dsp dashboard and to do the DIRAC room correction. It made a huge difference in my less than ideal sound room. You have what looks like a glorious system. The Dirac will be the icing on the cake. It was a bit of a learning curve for me. I had the same DIY speaker system for 30 years before upgrading! Looking forward to more impressions as you have more time with this sonic glory. Congratulations!
I also have a active speaker system with the mini dsp studio and use a dedicated laptop for my source and to run the dsp dashboard and to do the DIRAC room correction. It made a huge difference in my less than ideal sound room. You have what looks like a glorious system. The Dirac will be the icing on the cake. It was a bit of a learning curve for me. I had the same DIY speaker system for 30 years before upgrading! Looking forward to more impressions as you have more time with this sonic glory. Congratulations!
Hi Kpatch,
I did the room correction. Then from the minidsp control panel there are 4 customizable presets. Using the eq I made one for low volume listening, one for classical loud wide open listening, one for jazz listening and one for the more rock sound. It's minor tweaks.
I think there might be a pinned post on the minidsp forum site with some suggestions on the frequencies to play with for a house sound curve. Every room speaker system will be different, but i definitely like a slight bump in the 7k area and also at 40htz . At first i found it a little challenging being new to having the freedom, but now i thoroughly enjoy the control and experimentation. I was coming from using the same speakers for 30 years so it was quite a change for me. I felt like it made a really nice change to reign in the room dynamics and make it smoother. I am now going to explore some room treatment when the budget allows. It's a fun journey. For me the whole active speaker system is a dynamic quick beautifully revealing sound.
I'm finding it fascination seeing what AudioFanKJ is doing. Its inspiring.
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HCB77 & KP,
The past few weeks have been packed with business travel, thus I have neglected checking in on this thread for too long. During the past few weeks additional play time and hours continue to be logged on the system. The insertion of some other items and gear have been going through the break in process. Hoping to get a chance to do some critical listening in the upcoming days and perform comparisons with and without some potential tweaks.
To read what HBC77 was able to do with the miniDSP regarding customizable presets is quite interesting. There is so much more to explore beyond just performing the DIRAC live room correction, once I get to that point.
To answer your question KP, as to ongoing tweaking after running the DIRAC I am not sure. Potentially. However, I was planning to get everything dialed in as much as possible by ear prior to performing the DIRAC room correction. It is quite possible I am overthinking the process. I am being overly deliberate of when inserting an item or making a change to the system. My goal is to make sure I can comprehend and understand what each change elicits to the entire sonic presentation. Congratulations on your decision to acquire a pair of the Harriers!
Other than the installation of an earth ground for the system equipment and potentially some upgrades to the AC power cords I am very near completion of any potential tweaks and/or improvements to the system.
I will try to get some pictures of some recent additions as well as post some thoughts on the items.
-KJ
The past few weeks have been packed with business travel, thus I have neglected checking in on this thread for too long. During the past few weeks additional play time and hours continue to be logged on the system. The insertion of some other items and gear have been going through the break in process. Hoping to get a chance to do some critical listening in the upcoming days and perform comparisons with and without some potential tweaks.
To read what HBC77 was able to do with the miniDSP regarding customizable presets is quite interesting. There is so much more to explore beyond just performing the DIRAC live room correction, once I get to that point.
To answer your question KP, as to ongoing tweaking after running the DIRAC I am not sure. Potentially. However, I was planning to get everything dialed in as much as possible by ear prior to performing the DIRAC room correction. It is quite possible I am overthinking the process. I am being overly deliberate of when inserting an item or making a change to the system. My goal is to make sure I can comprehend and understand what each change elicits to the entire sonic presentation. Congratulations on your decision to acquire a pair of the Harriers!
Other than the installation of an earth ground for the system equipment and potentially some upgrades to the AC power cords I am very near completion of any potential tweaks and/or improvements to the system.
I will try to get some pictures of some recent additions as well as post some thoughts on the items.
-KJ
Very interesting journey! Thanks for sharing.
I have a more modest sonic universe, but am equally as inquisitive, and engaged in a speaker hunt that coincidentally has me considering the Rosso Fiorentino Elba 2.
My system:
Marantz Model 30 (power amp mode)
Decware CSP3 preamp
Marantz SACD 30n
Speakers are the remarkable Magnepan LRS, and my 22 year old (original owner) Kestrel Hot Rods.
I switch back and forth every few months between the Maggie’s and Kestrels.
I can’t help wondering to what price point I need to spend to see a meaningful upgrade over my current speakers? I’m completely satisfied with the current speakers, this is more about curiosity.
The Elba 2 are calling to me. And I realize this is a nearly impossible question to answer, but do you guys think the Elba 2 would be a step up, or sideways?
Thanks from Maui!
I have a more modest sonic universe, but am equally as inquisitive, and engaged in a speaker hunt that coincidentally has me considering the Rosso Fiorentino Elba 2.
My system:
Marantz Model 30 (power amp mode)
Decware CSP3 preamp
Marantz SACD 30n
Speakers are the remarkable Magnepan LRS, and my 22 year old (original owner) Kestrel Hot Rods.
I switch back and forth every few months between the Maggie’s and Kestrels.
I can’t help wondering to what price point I need to spend to see a meaningful upgrade over my current speakers? I’m completely satisfied with the current speakers, this is more about curiosity.
The Elba 2 are calling to me. And I realize this is a nearly impossible question to answer, but do you guys think the Elba 2 would be a step up, or sideways?
Thanks from Maui!
DancingSea,
Unfortunately, I have not had any experience with the newer RF models. I had the benefit of auditioning the Volterra's in my listening room and then owning the Siena's. However, that was roughly six years or so ago and have not been exposed to the line since. I would strongly encourage you to listen in person. If not possible to do so locally, investing in a plane ticket and a hotel night to schedule an audition out of state is well worth it in comparison to the commitment of an "unknown" at a significant price. That would be my humble opinion. Best of luck.
As to the latest developments...
Over the past few weeks, I have been trying various types of ethernet cable, as well as tweaking the Townshend Seismic Podiums under the Nightingales. The modem, router, music server and HDPlex Linear Power Supply were relocated to the rear of the room. Only the miniDSP SHD Studio and the Puritan PSM156 remain on the rack next to the Pelican.
Will be auditioning a new "state of the art" front end in the upcoming weeks. Exploring a hunch of mine, which is to implement as high quality front end as possible and within "reason" to provide the best quality source signal being sent into the Meadowlarks to elicit the ultimate performance out of them. At this time it remains a hunch.
More to follow upon arrival, installation, then audition of the new front end...
Will try to pick up where I left off a few weeks back. This blurb will focus on the arrival and installation of the Townshend Seismic Podiums to be utilized under the Nightingale speakers.
In the photo below masking tape was utilized to mark the position and orientation of the speaker prior to moving onto the Townshend Seismic Podium. Also tape and ink mark noting the exact middle of the platform. From there the dimensional footprint of the speaker was measured and tape placed just outside to assist with orientation and centering upon the podium:
Piece of tape in the center was removed and the base unit of the Nightingale was positioned onto the podium:
Forgot to mention 5" furniture glides were positioned under the footers on the podium to assist with movement of the speaker for dialing in the position and toe in.
Left Nightingale perched upon the Townshend Seismic Podium:
Prep work for the right Nightingale:
Base cabinet positioned and slid back into position:
Confirming the podium is leveled both front to back and left to right prior to addition of another 80-90 LBS of the top unit:
Snap of the Nightingales on the Townshend Seismic Podiums:
In the photo below masking tape was utilized to mark the position and orientation of the speaker prior to moving onto the Townshend Seismic Podium. Also tape and ink mark noting the exact middle of the platform. From there the dimensional footprint of the speaker was measured and tape placed just outside to assist with orientation and centering upon the podium:
Piece of tape in the center was removed and the base unit of the Nightingale was positioned onto the podium:
Forgot to mention 5" furniture glides were positioned under the footers on the podium to assist with movement of the speaker for dialing in the position and toe in.
Left Nightingale perched upon the Townshend Seismic Podium:
Prep work for the right Nightingale:
Base cabinet positioned and slid back into position:
Confirming the podium is leveled both front to back and left to right prior to addition of another 80-90 LBS of the top unit:
Snap of the Nightingales on the Townshend Seismic Podiums:
Attachments
So... How was the sound after installation of the Townshend Seismic Podiums?
Clean. Precise. Unrestricted. Tight. Extended. Natural. The installation of the Townshend Seismic Podiums seemed to "clean" up the sound in reduction of any slight "smear" or "cabinet vibration"... that I was unaware of existing. This phenomenon mentioned was certainly not noticed at all prior to the installation of the Seismic Podiums. I am not sure it could be noticed. However after the installation of the podiums, the sonics were just that much cleaner, precise, natural in attack and decay...
Was I imagining the sonic changes? It certainly seemed readily apparent, especially in midrange vocals and bottom end...
Prior to installation of the Podiums, I was inclined to try to personally confirm the validity and claims made of the Podiums. So, how do I confirm the podiums performed as advertised after installation? Alright, this idea may work... the following is what was done:
With the assistance of my cell phone, I searched the app store to find a vibration meter. Found and installed the following app:
Next... I needed to select a song which possessed strong and dynamic bass. I am not one to typically seek music like this out. Then it dawned on me, I had Qobuz "new releases" on repeat the week before and noticed the bass thumping while downstairs on the other side of the house. A quick glance at what was playing on Roon and it happened to be Billie Eilish. With that in mind, I listened to the beginning of a few songs on an album and selected the following track, which exhibited substantial bass output as well as pretty near the beginning of the track:
The cell phone was placed flat on its back on the top of the Nightingale. The Vibrometer app was started, then I used my iPad to start the above song. Here is a snapshot of the Vibrometer on the top of the Nightingale with standard footers/feet on the speakers:
The measurements along the top stating "average" and "Max" are the movement figures. 3.4 Max movement with 0.2 average:
After installation of the speakers onto the Townshend Seismic Podiums, the process was repeated. My cell phone was placed flat on its back on the top of the Nightingale. The Vibrometer app was started, then the iPad used to start the above song. Here is a snapshot of the Vibrometer on the top of the Nightingale placed upon the Townshend Seismic Podiums:
The measurements along the top stating "average" and "Max" are the movement figures. 0.4 Max movement with 0.1 average:
This was just one song, and one rough estimate with a phone app. However, maximum movement from 3.4 to 0.4 would be roughly 88% reduction in vibration transmission if my calculations are correct.
As mentioned the audible improvement was discernible to me. It is also interesting to me that there was such a significant reduction in the vibration which was passed through the footers to the speaker and how it being significantly reduced cleaned up the sonic presentation.
As I type in this note, it dawned on me the measurements were performed with the 5" furniture glides under the Podiums. As the actual footers appear to be more like 3.5" in diameter, the would likely compress the Frieze carpet more. The 5" diameter glides may have been a bit "cushioned" or "floating" a bit on top of the carpet.
Last weekend I used the recommendation of a friend and used an air bladder underneath the Podiums to lift them up and remove the furniture moving discs and then gently lower the stands so it would not affect the placement or toe in of the speakers.
That pretty much sums up the installation process and effect of the Townshend Seismic Podiums.
Clean. Precise. Unrestricted. Tight. Extended. Natural. The installation of the Townshend Seismic Podiums seemed to "clean" up the sound in reduction of any slight "smear" or "cabinet vibration"... that I was unaware of existing. This phenomenon mentioned was certainly not noticed at all prior to the installation of the Seismic Podiums. I am not sure it could be noticed. However after the installation of the podiums, the sonics were just that much cleaner, precise, natural in attack and decay...
Was I imagining the sonic changes? It certainly seemed readily apparent, especially in midrange vocals and bottom end...
Prior to installation of the Podiums, I was inclined to try to personally confirm the validity and claims made of the Podiums. So, how do I confirm the podiums performed as advertised after installation? Alright, this idea may work... the following is what was done:
With the assistance of my cell phone, I searched the app store to find a vibration meter. Found and installed the following app:
Next... I needed to select a song which possessed strong and dynamic bass. I am not one to typically seek music like this out. Then it dawned on me, I had Qobuz "new releases" on repeat the week before and noticed the bass thumping while downstairs on the other side of the house. A quick glance at what was playing on Roon and it happened to be Billie Eilish. With that in mind, I listened to the beginning of a few songs on an album and selected the following track, which exhibited substantial bass output as well as pretty near the beginning of the track:
The cell phone was placed flat on its back on the top of the Nightingale. The Vibrometer app was started, then I used my iPad to start the above song. Here is a snapshot of the Vibrometer on the top of the Nightingale with standard footers/feet on the speakers:
The measurements along the top stating "average" and "Max" are the movement figures. 3.4 Max movement with 0.2 average:
After installation of the speakers onto the Townshend Seismic Podiums, the process was repeated. My cell phone was placed flat on its back on the top of the Nightingale. The Vibrometer app was started, then the iPad used to start the above song. Here is a snapshot of the Vibrometer on the top of the Nightingale placed upon the Townshend Seismic Podiums:
The measurements along the top stating "average" and "Max" are the movement figures. 0.4 Max movement with 0.1 average:
This was just one song, and one rough estimate with a phone app. However, maximum movement from 3.4 to 0.4 would be roughly 88% reduction in vibration transmission if my calculations are correct.
As mentioned the audible improvement was discernible to me. It is also interesting to me that there was such a significant reduction in the vibration which was passed through the footers to the speaker and how it being significantly reduced cleaned up the sonic presentation.
As I type in this note, it dawned on me the measurements were performed with the 5" furniture glides under the Podiums. As the actual footers appear to be more like 3.5" in diameter, the would likely compress the Frieze carpet more. The 5" diameter glides may have been a bit "cushioned" or "floating" a bit on top of the carpet.
Last weekend I used the recommendation of a friend and used an air bladder underneath the Podiums to lift them up and remove the furniture moving discs and then gently lower the stands so it would not affect the placement or toe in of the speakers.
That pretty much sums up the installation process and effect of the Townshend Seismic Podiums.
Brilliant!
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