Turntable Leveling

[MikeT.]

@Rudy , I used your “something” as a good description of what I think is a suspicious marketing ploy, dissipating vibration through rigidity in their tonearm/base configuration versus high mass base design. I don’t think about it much anymore, thankfully 😅. Except for the leveling. I must be bored.

P2 - no double brace - Sounds great
P3 - double brace - Sounds dry, that’s a technical term.

I must like a bit of distortion added.

 

[MikeT.]

Mcmaster-Carr Why limit yourself to metric thicknesses?

I’m finally beginning to mentally visualize millimeters and centimeters. This dang hobby has forced me into using the Metric system. First world problem.

 

[JohnVF]

It’s similar to the Harbeth philosophy that mass stores resonance and keeps it around to muck up the sound. It’s better to control where things resonate and allow them to and let it leave the system as quickly as possible. The Funk Firm guy has similar thoughts (he did the Pink Triangle tables …similar ideas taken further, similar to where Rega went with the skeleton plinths).

 

[JohnVF]

@Rudy , I used your “something” as a good description of what I think is a suspicious marketing ploy, dissipating vibration through rigidity in their tonearm/base configuration versus high mass base design. I don’t think about it much anymore, thankfully 😅. Except for the leveling. I must be bored.

P2 - no double brace - Sounds great
P3 - double brace - Sounds dry, that’s a technical term.

I must like a bit of distortion added.

Sorry missed your post here. It does work for Harbeth. I have a whole book about Rega somewhere, signed by Roy Gandy! I should read it.

If the table is like the Harbeths it’ll want something that allows it to resonate freely. Though Rega is also suspect on the cheapness of certain solutions so it’s hard to say why they chose the feet they chose on their entry decks.

My only issue with his theory is rigidity in the arm over adjustability. A misaligned cart will sound worse than another plane of adjustment built in.

 

[airdronian]

To Rega's credit they are consistent in their approach to their lineup. Whether that approach is something we like is a different matter.

Beyond Rega's P10 is the Naia - there's an intro video on Tracking Angle's YouTube channel here. Full review is on their website. It's informative. The Naia is expensive for normal people, but if you consider where the market has gone it doesn't look so bad. I'm not the customer for one of these, that much is certain.

 

[MikeT.]

Sorry missed your post here. It does work for Harbeth. I have a whole book about Rega somewhere, signed by Roy Gandy! I should read it.

If the table is like the Harbeths it’ll want something that allows it to resonate freely. Though Rega is also suspect on the cheapness of certain solutions so it’s hard to say why they chose the feet they chose on their entry decks.

My only issue with his theory is rigidity in the arm over adjustability. A misaligned cart will sound worse than another plane of adjustment built in.

Harbeth fanboy here. I sold Mission loudspeakers when I was much younger and actually won a contest at my store and went to the factory. Their idea was similar to Harbeth, allow the resonance but design to it. The original Mission 770 was outstanding, the whole line was, like Harbeth, IMO.
The feet on the Rega P2 and I think the P3 are mounted with simple wood screws. They work apparently because the isolation is very good.

It’s entirely possible I did not have the synergy with the double brace technology when I owned the P3 that I have now with my modified P2. I do like me a Rega tonearm though,

 

[MikeT.]

To Rega's credit they are consistent in their approach to their lineup. Whether that approach is something we like is a different matter.

Beyond Rega's P10 is the Naia - there's an intro video on Tracking Angle's YouTube channel here. Full review is on their website. It's informative. The Naia is expensive for normal people, but if you consider where the market has gone it doesn't look so bad. I'm not the customer for one of these, that much is certain.

Really cool video, thanks for sharing @airdronian . Rega’s consistency is the main reason I like the company, I know what I’m going to get.

 

[Fran604g]

The turntable is fine. It's the house that needs leveling! 😮

I can attest to this statement and fully "support" it. I don't know if our 200+ years old pioneer homestead is the most lopsided/unlevel/unplumb structure in existence but, I'm equally sure it might very well be a contender. I've used everything from 2x4s to glass coasters in combinations that would impress a doctorate-level physicist to shim literally every piece of furniture, counter and appliance in my futile attempts to get things level.

Ugh.

My kingdom for a flat spot.

 

[Rudy]

Speaking of aquiring tools I didn't know I needed until I saw it (just recently), and don't actually need right now...which means I'll probably end up getting one anyway...



That is the QUICK-LIFT™ Construction Jack, which can't lift an entire house to level it, but can help level all sorts of other things. I could see lifting a few pieces of furniture slightly to help slip something underneath to level them out.

I don't know if our 200+ years old pioneer homestead is the most lopsided/unlevel/unplumb structure in existence but, I'm equally sure it might very well be a contender.

This old house (84 years old) seems fairly level, but it has its quirks. There are even times I've hung something perfectly level on a wall and had it look "off." The irony is that my rack is in the late 1980s addition to the house, which is on a concrete slab and, as expected, off to the side of the room. I guess "mostly level" is close enough? One issue I've had with furniture with flat bottoms is wanting to place it close to a wall, meaning I have to deal with a tack strip for the carpeting.

 

[Fran604g]

Speaking of aquiring tools I didn't know I needed until I saw it (just recently), and don't actually need right now...which means I'll probably end up getting one anyway...

View attachment 76823

That is the QUICK-LIFT™ Construction Jack, which can't lift an entire house to level it, but can help level all sorts of other things. I could see lifting a few pieces of furniture slightly to help slip something underneath to level them out.


This old house (84 years old) seems fairly level, but it has its quirks. There are even times I've hung something perfectly level on a wall and had it look "off." The irony is that my rack is in the late 1980s addition to the house, which is on a concrete slab and, as expected, off to the side of the room. I guess "mostly level" is close enough? One issue I've had with furniture with flat bottoms is wanting to place it close to a wall, meaning I have to deal with a tack strip for the carpeting.

I grew up, like many my age, watching new homes being built in unprecedented numbers and quickly learned that there's no such thing as "level" or "plumb". Close enough works for just about everything. I like that small hand lift-jack and can see how it would assist the lone individual (me, most of the time I "need" to do something).

When I lifted the entire length of the single story rear section of our house I used a Hi-Lift jack I carried in my 1982 Chevy C20. Really needed 2 of them. When it came to lifting the 2nd story of the main structure to replace a missing  main timber post (removed by our preceding owner-family probably in the 1920s during expansion) I used 2 massive steel screw jacks made for the task, my High-Lift jack and a couple of 20 ton hydraulic bottle jacks. And 6x6 posts as extensions.

It always seems like I need more than what I have on hand.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming.😁

 

[Rudy]

I grew up, like many my age, watching new homes being built in unprecedented numbers and quickly learned that there's no such thing as "level" or "plumb". Close enough works for just about everything.

Starting out level-ish seems to work fine with just about every structure on earth, it seems. 👍

I like that small hand lift-jack and can see how it would assist the lone individual (me, most of the time I "need" to do something).

It's something I wouldn't use often, but would be great to keep around for those times when I need it. I tend to do things solo as well.

 

[JohnVF]

A bit off the topic of turntables, but on the topic of leveling houses. My brother in law seems to annoy my father to no end. And the main example he gives to illustrate the cause of his annoyance is my sister's house. It's a very very old farmhouse. And when they moved in the upstairs had a crazy dip in it. You'd literally trip over the way the floor would change elevation. But this is because the house had settled oddly. Well, my BiL goes about redoing all of the floors upstairs and levels them. PRIOR to leveling the house, which he does next. Destroying all the previously leveled floors upstairs. I have to say, I think my father has a point.

 

[Fran604g]

A bit off the topic of turntables, but on the topic of leveling houses. My brother in law seems to annoy my father to no end. And the main example he gives to illustrate the cause of his annoyance is my sister's house. It's a very very old farmhouse. And when they moved in the upstairs had a crazy dip in it. You'd literally trip over the way the floor would change elevation. But this is because the house had settled oddly. Well, my BiL goes about redoing all of the floors upstairs and levels them. PRIOR to leveling the house, which he does next. Destroying all the previously leveled floors upstairs. I have to say, I think my father has a point.

Right on! A lesson I learned the hard way when I began doing minor renovations early on in the mid-80s. I think I had hoped the little tweaks would've sufficed. They did not.🙁😂

 

[Rudy]

Slightly veering back towards audio stuff...

My buddy lived in a Chicago suburb, in the house he grew up in. (His parents moved to another 'burb and he bought the house from them.) He had a fully loaded IKEA EXPEDIT 5x5 shelving unit in the bedroom, packed with records.

He noticed one day in his living room that there was a gap of three or four inches between the quarter round and the hardwood floor. Going into the basement/crawl space (it was half and half), he found that one of the floor joists had snapped. He and his brother managed to patch it up, but he did move the shelf to another room of the house that had better support underneath the floor.

 

[JohnVF]

Slightly veering back towards audio stuff...

My buddy lived in a Chicago suburb, in the house he grew up in. (His parents moved to another 'burb and he bought the house from them.) He had a fully loaded IKEA EXPEDIT 5x5 shelving unit in the bedroom, packed with records.

He noticed one day in his living room that there was a gap of three or four inches between the quarter round and the hardwood floor. Going into the basement/crawl space (it was half and half), he found that one of the floor joists had snapped. He and his brother managed to patch it up, but he did move the shelf to another room of the house that had better support underneath the floor.

The 5x5 Expedit record shelf is a disaster waiting to happen. I know because it happened to me. I had one fully loaded, and leaned on it wrong and the whole thing just folded, collapsing to the side, covering me in an avalanche of records. I get out of the way enough to avoid harm but WHAT A MESS.

I now have 2 2x5 Kallax and a 2x2, all along one wall, laid out on their sides.

 

[Rudy]

They're supposed to be anchored to the wall, and they provide the hardware to do so. That said, I have two 4x2 units against the wall and they are not anchored. (I guess I like living dangerously?) I trust them more than a single 4x4 as the only thing supporting the unit are the thin shelves in the middle. (I have the newer KALLAX units.) I'm a bit pissed though, as they had a light wood color with a grey tint to it that looks perfect in the room, and when I went to buy another unit (4x1 to fit between the other two), they had discontinued the color. It lasted maybe a year or two. I have two 2x2 black units nearer my desk that I use as a credenza of sorts, and installed doors on some of them to hide a lot of clutter.

I saw enough Internet photos of collapsed 4x4 and 5x5 units that I figured I should stay away from them...

 

[Fran604g]

The 5x5 Expedit record shelf is a disaster waiting to happen. I know because it happened to me. I had one fully loaded, and leaned on it wrong and the whole thing just folded, collapsing to the side, covering me in an avalanche of records. I get out of the way enough to avoid harm but WHAT A MESS.

I now have 2 2x5 Kallax and a 2x2, all along one wall, laid out on their sides.

This's good to know because, I'm planning on buying a KALLAX 4x4 57 7/8" x 64 5/8" (with metal base) unit soon (funding dependent on how soon) and will definitely anchor the crap out of it.

 

[JohnVF]

This's good to know because, I'm planning on buying a KALLAX 4x4 57 7/8" x 64 5/8" (with metal base) unit soon (funding dependent on how soon) and will definitely anchor the crap out of it.

For sure anchor it. My old huge Expedit completely collapsed under the weight of the records. Since then I've used mostly the 2x4 units, though I had a 1x5 that I used for a bit as well (both on its side and standing in a corner).

Currently I have 3 2x4 (I was mistaken in my earlier count). They're not going anywhere... there's not room for them to collapse and on their side they're quite sturdy.

 

[Fran604g]

For sure anchor it. My old huge Expedit completely collapsed under the weight of the records. Since then I've used mostly the 2x4 units, though I had a 1x5 that I used for a bit as well (both on its side and standing in a corner).

Currently I have 3 2x4 (I was mistaken in my earlier count). They're not going anywhere... there's not room for them to collapse and on their side they're quite sturdy.
View attachment 76827

I really dig the way that looks, John.

 

[JohnVF]

I really dig the way that looks, John.

The only part of having a record collection that I don't like is having to store them and look at their storage. I can't say I love it, but it gets them about as out of the way as I can. I've actually suggested to my wife that I pick out one 2x4 shelf of favorites and to put the rest in storage but she WANTS all the records out. It was her idea to face the shelves with covers that are mostly white-space.